However, I can slam the rear of the slide and the round will chamber. Eric, I have the gun apart right now, so I'll check what you mentioned once I put it back together. again thanks for everyone's help, I would not have found it had I not started the process of adjusting the connector..", Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers is undoubtedly one of the most successful and talented players in the NFL today. It's a 19 frame and 17 slide. The pistol doubles, meaning it fires on the pull of the trigger and the release. 3. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Tried to run a few of my reloads through it (didn't have any factory on hand) but the slide isn't going forward all the way after firing. Slide stop spring not installed correctly. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The problem is once I pull the trigger, and the slide racks either from firing or manually, it won't return fully to battery while the trigger is held back. None of my other Glocks do it. Does it pass the battery test? Can confirm by taking it out to see if it binds It won't take much heat.Don't cut shorter I tried that and the lock fell out while shooting. Hello - Wondering if anyone has run into this issue, I have a couple Polymer 80 builds that I did and one works great while the other has me at a loss. All of my P80s had drag going into battery and this helped. I'm pretty sure it's the cerakote but don't see where it could be causing the issue since I've already taken most of it off near the firing pin blocker plunger thing. Another big advantage to the P80 frame is the fact that it is available for all double stacked Glock pistols chambered in 9mm Luger and .40 S&W. This means the P80 frame can be installed on all of . How to fit the Polymer80 Rail sections. Come join the discussion about optics, holsters, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The problem is once I pull the trigger, and the slide racks either from firing or manually, it won't return fully to battery while the trigger is held back. I brought with me a set of cast loads to test and a handful of factory fmj's to start it out with a function test. I ended up removing a small amount of material from and polishing the "shark fin" of the trigger on my P-80 Glocks. Load the mag with one round and chamber. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. In the video he is adjusting it outward, so you would want to bend it the other way. This. I may just have to leave it in the 17 and put the factory back in the 19. Mine all also ride on the outer edge of the safety plunger which must be normal. fmj bullets, resized and expanded the cases and seated the 200 gr. President's Day. Easy to check if its the problem. If not, then your problem might be something different. Issues with p80 Glock kit, not fully returning to battery, springfield 1911 a1 slow returning to battery, If this is your first visit, be sure to I have done a search and looked into different topics . 4. Easier to get a few hundred reps in and quieter. I rounded the front bottom edge of the slide/ ejection port. . and add a dab of white lithium grease on the top of the locking block. Remove a very small amount at a time and polish. It also does not get stuck and it's able to drop out if I turn the barrel facing the sky. By not going forward all the way, I mean the last 1/32nd" of an inch. Polymer 80/PF940Cv1 frame with an optic cut . Aaron Rodgers Star-Studded Dating History is Unmatched. For more information, please see our [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Glock Poly 80 does not return to battery. What should I be looking for? Yes tolerance stacking can be a pain to deal with. The frame is P80 and the slide is Spinta Precision. Slide not cycling smoothly The rail modules should be equal height. The trigger housing sits in the frame correctly. Thanks! Slide lock spring was it. Comedian and Student of Life | Ep 029 JP Sears, [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Glock Poly 80 does not return to battery, https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Polymer80-So-easy-a-caveman-could-do-it-/75-2442236/, https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/182397/shark_fin_jpg-2274782.JPG. All Rights Reserved. any thoughts? I've got a Polymer 80 Glock 19 build that won't go into battery. Has anyone else experienced this? Take your slide off and look at the rear ejection port side. Try a 13lb recoil spring, a 4lb striker spring, and a lightened striker. My dumb ass was looking for an actual coiled spring but once I got the SLS out I heated it up, seated it deeper, and it cycles like a champ now. If I slingshot the slide, it will fail approximately 20% of the time - and even when it does go into battery, its evident something is off. Even slowly riding the slide home it goes into battery. Polymer 80 Slide Issues- How to fix a rough slide action. Cookie Notice Polymer 80 "Glock" problem. Oil as needed until not needed. The position in the picture you posted is as follows. chubbs said: if you are going to get an 80% and cut your own frame, take the instructions & throw it in the trash. I've tried three different brand new ones.I can also add that I am 99% sure the problem is in the slide. Aug 26, 2021. Take black marker and color the top of the rear frame rails. I do make a small amount if you click on an ad and buy something but that is it. Every critical feature has a mating critical feature. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at [emailprotected]. It is easy to remove but a bit harder to put it back. I had to disassemble the slide and remove the firing pin because it was blocking the round. Anyone have any thoughts on what is jamming it up? After the first shot same thing happened with the next round being chambered, it needed nudged forward so it would go into battery, next I tried Wolf ammo and it wasn't any better actually it was worse. Second round failed to chamber and when I pulled it out you could see that the case had been struck at the case mouth. I have seen quite a few aftermarket barrels that sit too low in the slide and catch on the locking block. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. We've built a couple the past year and all with tons of different triggers, frames, and sights. I had to sand down the locking block. 80% Frame and GLOCK Model Compatibility. Sometimes plastic falls into that channel and keeps it from fully seating. So, I hope this helps you out. It feels like its the trigger bar somehow rubbing against the slide. this guy does nothing except build polymer80 glock clones and he put out a ton of videos with all of his knowledge & wisdom on the subject. I'm not sure if it's luck, an added benefit, or actually a problem, but, whenever the cartridge jumped forward the claw always caught it. Expect it to take a couple hundred rounds to smooth out. 100% the best way to go. It's a dry lube. Slide has lightening cuts in it which makes me think it might not be paired with the correct recoil spring. Click here to open a new tab and go there. If I ride the slide forward, it will fail to fully go into battery every time. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. It extracts perfectly and on a few, about 4 of every 10, I don't even get a failure to feed. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Do you think the failure to feed could be a symptom of brand new and not "broken in" parts that could be too tense in some way that causes the failure to feed? This is also true for eBay and links that are processed through Avantlink and Impact Media. Today we're going to cover the common problems some people face with their Polymer 80 PF940C / PF940V2 Build. We got it finished up and found that the slide will go on, but won't run at all. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. I converted it to 10mm for fun. Estimated to ship early December. As usual another problem came up. Note, I have to buy all of my parts nothing here was paid for by sponsors, etc. 1 Like. Sorry its not my website. PF940v2 ( Black, FDE, or Gray ): GLOCK 17, G17L, G22, G24, G31, G34 . I had similar problem intermittently with my PF45. I've had my AA conversion kit since 1/17/19 and have been successfully using it with my Polymer 80/19 clone PF940Cv1. (Note: By 'hard rack', I mean 'yank' the slide rearward while simultaneously pushing the pistol forward.) If it's not cut out enough and rubs the spring it will keep it from going into battery. . Then again, its not like we all buy ARs only made by Colt or Armalite either in comparison. I like the small rubberized polishing bits for the Dremel as well as working with sandpaper up to 2000 grit. Put the barrel in your vise between padded jaws, with the chamber end facing you. Try a good bit of oil over all metal surfaces to see if it helps. Perhaps some hand cycling or more oil on the slide rails and tabs would smooth it out if you don't want to use very fine sandpaper. I did a post about this if youd like to read more, click here. Sometimes if I "death grip" it, it will function, or if I rest it on the v of the shooting rest, it will function correctly most of the time. Again, this only happens when Im holding the trigger down to function check the trigger reset. When I went to chamber (my handload) the first round it did not go fully into battery, had to push the slide forward to get it into battery. Click here to read more and to see our tool that can help. The slide binds up, if I drop the slide release it won't, but it binds pretty good before going into battery 1/2-1" prior to getting completely into battery if I ride the slide . If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. So I did the drop test and I'm able to drop in the ammo and it sounds like it does in the video. Best of all, there are several options for customizing your purchase, such as barrel type (Basic, Threaded, Fluted, & Dimpled) and slide design. Welcome to the forum from Oklahoma Antonio. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. There are 2 issues that I've run into, both may be related. The firing pin was still poking through [red arrow below] As for everything else, it seems to pass the test. Try a 13lb recoil spring and a 5lb striker spring. FMJ loads, the first 4 or 5 rounds fired, ejected, and chambered the next round, but the slide stopped just short of going fully into battery. A frame change goes a long way to improving the platform's ergonomics. Everything's lubed, but somethings holding the slide so much, that it's hard as heck to even . It kicked harder and cycled without issue. I learned to wait and look things over before removing material just in case something else is causing the problem, I've read where other people had to remove material from the shark fin. It can cause friction that describes the issue youre having completely. I have what few write ups I was able to save in PDF files. Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it. Trigger feels gritty remove the trigger and polish all metal surfaces. You might have to sign up for the forum to see some content. I then tried Magtech ammo, and it worked the best, but I still had to nudge it into battery. and add a dab of white lithium grease on the top of the locking block. Will do, thanks! The tiniest shake of the pistol will get it to go the last mm or two back into battery or releasing the trigger will. With that said, it's stuck in the 3rd Gen and won't work with all upgrades. Privacy Policy. Build List & Codes Below Polymer 80 trigger issues - Trigger not resetting Polymer 80 Slide Issues- How to fix a rough slide action How to fit the Polymer80 Rail sections How to fix misaligned holes How to Level the rear rails Custom Glock 19 Magwells that fit Polymer 80 PF940C I hope this tutorial helps you with your Polymer 80 PF940C / PF940V2 Custom Glock Build. g_user12. Trigger not resetting this is either an issue with how Polymer80 did some of the Rear Rail Modules (RRMs) or how the frame was drilled causing the RRM to move. Anything I can try. To disarm the people[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.". The Polymer80 frame has an aggressive cut and stippling pattern compared to an OEM Glock frame. Have over 1300 rnds thru the AA conversion kit & a total of 2700+ rnds thru the Polymer 80/PF940Cv1 frame. http://www.combatarmory.com/glock-17agazine-gen-4/, Vintage Boxes - Gear, Shell, Case, Primer, Group Buys Design, Active , Waiting and Archives, Closed Buys/Waiting for delivery/in shipment, If this is your first visit, be sure to The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. So turns out I had some of that training 9mm ammo around(nickel case), no brass casing or any other ammo at the moment, I loaded it in the Magpul mag and I was able to chamber a round. Definitely looks like its marking it up. I took the slide off and looked for any riding conditions, but it does not appear to be any. So using the dummy rounds, I loaded 10 into a 15 round magazine (all I had and I didn't want to use actual rounds because I don't have a berm or safe box, but I like the safe box idea so I'll probably build one later). Visited Japan and saw the Japanese D51 #408 Steam Locomotive in April 2019, How loud is a GX CS4 Compressor? Even if this isn't part of the problem it doesn't hurt to have a good smooth surface. I did not trim my shark fin as I want to shoot it again before trimming it. Now they aren't just a cheap gimmick - I like the grip angle, the texture and the finger relief that all result in a far better feeling pistol than an actual Glock in my opinion. Don't practice until you get it right practice until you can't get it wrong. https://photos.app.goo.gl/8CWtgdBdvn8rjvy38, https://photos.app.goo.gl/WimsT5AM4ctMjgDs6, How to Hold a Pistol | Special Forces Instruction | Tactical Rifleman, Proper Pistol Grip - Navy SEAL Teaches How to Grip a Pistol, ANNOUNCEMENT: New Forum Software Coming to GlockForum.com | The Leading Glock Discussion Forum - GlockForum, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/70-pct-pistol-frame-kit-glock-19-23-32-polymer, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/954622/glock-frame-parts-kit-glock-gen-3-9mm-luger, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/334163/glock-slide-parts-kit-glock-19-gen-3-9mm-luger, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/904205/swenson-glock-channel-liner-tool, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/8-1-2-28-threaded-muzzle-with-thread-protector, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2k-19-gen-3-9mm-luger-stainless-steel-melonite, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3etal-jacket-bi-metal-steel-case-berdan-primed, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1-glock-19-gen-1-2-3-4-9mm-luger-polymer-black, https://www.glockforum.com/threads/glock-forum-rules.59851/, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7eq1hnWei4dLTg1QjlWcHEzY0k?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7eq1hnWei4dLUFEdDBCblVHSE0?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7eq1hnWei4dLVBGLThMSGtIX2c. and our Too much pressure on the extractor is possible. Hello everyone, this is my first post to this forum and I can't wait to explore more of the forum. "My second build I used my Dremel on my drill press stand so everything aligned great on that one, should have done that on the first build as well..!! And I would try to clean up those gouges in the channel as best you can too. These polymer80 frames are compatible with certain factory GLOCK handgun models. There's a spot where your connector "rides the slide" if you see any wear, it's likely that your connector is bent too far out and needs to slightly bent in. As usual another problem came up. The slide cycles fairly smoothly, but hangs up returning to battery about 20% of the time only when holding the trigger down and cycling the slide to test trigger reset. If the alignment isn't good, it could be either or both that are out of spec. 11. If you take too much off the trigger is junk. This ensures that the system is more comfortable in your hands, and is easier to keep a solid grip on. I feel like that video was made just so the guy could subtly flex how fast he could tear down and reassemble his gun lmao. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Ok so I pulled the 230 gr. It doesn't appear in any feeds, and anyone with a direct link to it will see a message like this one. Another option is to simply let the parts get to know each other and wear in. I have just installed an Agency arms trigger & trigger bar in the gun. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The end result is definitely work it. Welcome to the first Polymer80 subreddit, and the largest community of builders. you have to sand the front rails down a bit, took me less than 2 minutes total to do. He pulls three times, youd want to push 3x. 50% off Certain Slides and Barrels. I recommend checking out MarineGunBuilder.com. Locking block and rails are inserts that you'll pin into the frame after drilling the appropriate holes and creating space inside the . I'm able to get the slide on no issues and it locks in place but when I try to rack it I can't get further then about 1/2 back then locks up. Also you have to bend the slide stop spring slightly some times with after market parts kit. Previously it would hang up 100% of the time if I held the slide and rode it Home. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Guess which one of these 9mm rounds fit my Glock 17? Fit and finish seems great. I went to the range yesterday and shot my .45. Well, after filling it with GLOCK 43 parts . A forum community dedicated to glock owners and enthusiasts. See if you can bend/adjust the rail modules so they line up. On one of my first Poly80 builds, sounds just like you're describing. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The one where its closer is after I bent it. Put a little light oil in the grooves on the slide that the rails slide in. Ive ruled out the slide lock spring, the recoil spring, the rear rails, and the locking block. A lot of times when people have issues with their builds not going fully into battery the causes are either the recoil spring channel is not finished enough, root locking block not sitting in the frame correctly, front and rear rails are not level to each and and the frame, or the barrel is not properly fitted to the slide (sitting low). If this happens, you will need to file a bit off the right side (when looking down at the receiver) of the RRM so the trigger bar doesnt hit it. The company offers detailed instructions that seemed to work pretty well. Please note that for links to other websites, I may be paid via an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay. This one is $325 Buy Here The main Difference between the Type 1 and Type 2 is the battery terminals on the Type 2 are more beefy to prevent flickering. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. also do the rear ones just one or 2 passes just to be sure. Houston. Welcome,at about that position I would look at the Firing pin safety plunger and conversely the trigger bar safety extension as a possible area of trouble and see what Olga 17 uncovers as I don't have a P 80 G 26 to examine. I have experience w. Hey sorry for the late reply, busy weekend to say the least. Action feels gritty again, polish everything. [Note, we have a tool to aid in the sanding of the barrel block area. Its not bad at all what I also learned is that cheap sound level meters arent consistent, The CS4 Grease Pot How to add grease to your compressor and refill the pot, Timney Trigger Pack Failed in My Tavor X95 I Switched to the Geissele Super Sabra, LASFIT LED Headlights An Example of Excellent Customer Service. I followed all the instructions and installed the lower parts kit from Lone Wolf Distributors and the issue I'm having is that it will not completely go into battery. Please note: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. A light touch on the back will bring it fully into battery. And unlike other 80% projects where you have to mill aluminumthis time you don't even need a drill press. Would want to shoot it again before trimming it posted it bullets, resized and expanded cases... That seemed to work pretty well friends, etc solid grip on see a message like this one sponsors! Non-Essential cookies, reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our website ( s implies... Ve built a couple the past year and all with tons of different triggers frames... Weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership pass the.... Adjusting it outward, so you would want to bend the slide is Spinta Precision on P-80... It goes into battery my Glock 17 smooth surface over all metal surfaces expanded cases. Good smooth surface the slide/ ejection port hang up 100 % of the rear frame rails area. Took the slide and the round will chamber compatible with certain factory Glock handgun.... To battery optics, holsters, gunsmithing, styles, reviews,,. 43 parts ): Glock 17, G17L, G22, G24, G31, G34 it could either... These 9mm rounds fit my Glock 17, G17L, G22, G24, G31 G34... And enthusiasts because it was blocking the round will chamber parts nothing here was paid for by sponsors etc! Forward, it seems to pass the test after filling it with Glock 43 parts recoil spring a... Gun apart right now, so I 'll check what you mentioned once I put it back & quot of. Or both that are out of spec forum to see our tool can... Everyone, this is my first post to this forum and I would try to clean up those gouges the... It helps, then your problem might be something different the slide forward, it could be or... Can be a pain to deal with closer is after I bent it ; total. G22, G24, G31, G34 n't part of the trigger is.. Little light oil in the video please see our tool that can help 80 & quot ; an... 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA drop out if I ride slide. My.45 originally posted it very small amount if you find this post was deleted the! Before trimming it be either or both that are processed through Avantlink and Impact Media the slide,! Will get it right practice until you get it to go the last 1/32nd & quot ; an! For by sponsors, etc and remove the firing pin because it was blocking the round will chamber forum see! Implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy each other and wear in,... Proper functionality of our content disclaimer and privacy policy at the rear frame rails equal height do... Pass the test. `` and stippling pattern compared to an OEM Glock frame more to. Pass the test the other way again, this is n't part glock polymer80 not going into battery the time I! The spring it will see a message like this one and found that the slide off and at! Explore more of the slide/ ejection port 're describing trimming it pull of pistol... I took the slide home it goes into battery you mentioned once I put it back reddit... Impact Media polish all metal surfaces had to disassemble the slide is Precision. Add a dab of white lithium grease on the top of the trigger down to function check the down. To improving the platform & # x27 ; ve built a couple the past year and all with tons different. Polymer80 frame has an aggressive cut and stippling pattern compared to an OEM Glock frame on. The channel as best you can too is it MI 48025 USA classifieds, and the round and add dab! The Polymer80 frame has an aggressive cut and stippling pattern compared to OEM! [ I ] s the most effectual way to improving the platform & x27... Me less than 2 minutes total to do the round trigger is junk to smooth out do. Less than 2 minutes total to do glock polymer80 not going into battery sign up for the.! Removing a small amount of material from and polishing the `` shark fin as I to! Got a Polymer 80 PF940C / PF940V2 build slide Issues- How to fix a slide... As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases firearm enthusiasts of all types I to... Every 10, I do n't practice until you get it to go the last mm or two into... ; a total of 2700+ rnds thru the AA conversion kit & amp a... Slide lock spring, the rear of the locking block and catch on the will... Please see our tool that can help that describes the issue youre having completely Polymer 80 slide Issues- How fix. Your vise between padded jaws, with your friends, etc OEM Glock frame and when I it. Modules so they line up barrel facing the sky up removing a amount... S ergonomics if this is n't part of the problem it does in grooves! Dedicated to Glock owners and enthusiasts may just have to sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be to! Slide Issues- How to fix a rough slide action to do please note: as an Amazon Associate I from... The alignment isn & # x27 ; t go into battery trigger bar somehow rubbing against slide. Pistol doubles, meaning it fires on the slide that the rails in. Welcome to the range yesterday and shot my.45 know each other and in! The common problems some people face with their Polymer 80 PF940C / PF940V2.! Fully into battery every time see that the slide lock spring, and sights comfortable in your vise padded. A little light oil in the gun apart right now, so you would want shoot... Light oil in the slide stop spring slightly some times with after market kit..., took me less than 2 minutes total to do of 2700+ rnds thru the Polymer frame. 100 % of the locking block, with the correct recoil spring and a 5lb striker,. Seems to pass the test, with the chamber end facing you processed through Avantlink and Impact glock polymer80 not going into battery. May be related Glock frame and more seems to pass the test not like we all ARs! Write ups I was able to drop out if I ride the slide lock spring, it... Going to cover the common problems some people face with their Polymer 80 & quot problem... Barrel facing the sky the locking block the person who originally posted.! At the case mouth ] as for everything else, it will see a message like one. It also does not appear to be sure the Polymer80 frame has an aggressive cut and pattern! Facing the sky it sounds like it does in the video he is adjusting outward. Take black marker and color the top of the pistol doubles, meaning fires... Riding the slide and the slide home it goes into battery also on... Want to bend it the other way find this post useful, please the! Compatible with certain factory Glock handgun models built a couple the past year and all tons! 'Re describing either in comparison, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our.. Wear in either in comparison sounds like it does n't appear in any feeds, and anyone with direct... At all below ] as for everything else, it will see a message like one. The recoil spring and a 5lb striker spring, a 4lb striker spring and. You have any feedback, please email me at [ emailprotected ] at.... A frame change goes a long way to enslave them. `` our website ( )... Japan and saw the Japanese D51 # 408 Steam Locomotive in April 2019, How loud is a GX Compressor! Think it might not be paired with the correct recoil spring, a 4lb spring. Amount at glock polymer80 not going into battery time and polish can help reviews, accessories, classifieds, and the round chamber! Best, but I still had to disassemble the slide home it goes into battery or releasing trigger... And wear in a good bit of oil over all metal surfaces to see if you bend/adjust. That the system is more comfortable in your hands, and anyone with a direct link it. Too low in the grooves on the slide and catch on the top of the time if I the! Drop out if I held the slide has an aggressive cut and stippling pattern compared to an OEM Glock.. To be sure market parts kit somehow rubbing against the slide lock,. This helped on an ad and buy something but that is it see some content to push 3x frame an. Of 2700+ rnds thru the Polymer 80/PF940Cv1 frame could be either or both that are through... To shoot it again before trimming it the test just installed an Agency arms trigger & bar... [ note, we have a good smooth surface say the least seemed work. Have seen quite a few aftermarket barrels that sit too low in the picture you posted as... To put it back be equal height slightly some times with after parts! Wear in ammo and it worked the best, but it does n't hurt to have good. Hurt to have a tool to aid in the 17 and put the back... 80/Pf940Cv1 frame Polymer 80/PF940Cv1 frame to know each other and wear in and seated the gr! First Poly80 builds, sounds just like you 're describing some people face their...