If youre looking for a way to exterminate them with what you have on hand, you might turn to a bottle of bleach. Ive only got one very healthy large fat tailed Leo now, but I also enjoy breeding the worms I find it fascinating and I have developed quite a passion for the breeding with the worms; and getting the Locusts as babies so I get them really healthy and well fed for Roo. Breeding Superworms: A guide to raising and breeding superworms, DIY: Naturalistic Foam Fake Rock Enclosure, Going on Vacation With (and Without) Your Geckos. 5.3k views Reviewed >2 years ago. The birds had those too! Because wheat and oat is too expensive in our country. Place the snake into the plastic container. Killing Dust Mites with Chlorine Bleach. Applying vinegar to grain mites does not kill them and is not a recommended treatment. Generally theyre harmless, but you dont want mold or an infestation in your home. How To Get Rid Of Spider Mites During Flowering, How To Get Rid Of Magnified Russet Mites: [11 Effective Methods]. At the least it will accelerate their development. Although its a less common way of infestation, grain mites can attach to other insects or animals during a juvenile period of their life cycle called hypopus. You wont be eliminating the grain mites in the grain, but eventually, you should be able to reduce the number. (Mites and ticks are both arachnids, but theyre not the same species at all.) Required fields are marked *, Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. (Use Food Grade DE powder), Oh and obviously it does involve changing out your bedding for your worms regularly (ie sifting) to reduce the infestation and start afresh , I am so happy that the diatomaceous earth has worked for you! I dont recommend it for anyone else with a terrarium as it will also kill the terrarium critters such as spiders or crickets. I provide the egg half of an egg carton for them to lay their eggs on. Im hoping to put all my containers in the fridge mealworms and all, so hoping it is shorter than mealworms can survive. Especially, when I have a successful number of baby mealworms. In order to get rid of grain mites, it is important to reduce the humidity levels in the pantry. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your account data and we will send you a link to reset your password. Check the container every few days. Ideally you want about 28deg. 3. I have never heard the term. I say bye- bye to the baby mealworms sadly(too difficult to pick out). The DE spray tends to be expensive but if you wanted to spray it over your shelving and anywhere else in close proximity this is also more effective than sprinkling the powder, Consider opening a window when mixing and spraying the bleach solution and wearing safety goggles and a mask. Carrots,Broccoli or Cauliflower stems cut in half lengthways are great for the moisture as are the suggestions made by Aliza. These tiny white bugs have infested my little echosystem sitting right by the katydid nurseries but seem to have no interest in the nurseries. 3. Roughly how long in the fridge will be required to kill the mites? Kill Mold Mites on Walls with Borax. Im still trying methods to be free from mites. I couldnt find your comment. These tiny creatures feed on cereal, grains, and other stored foods. Once Ive isolated the problem containers and washed the containers and lids, I monitor all containers daily by inspecting the inside of the lids to check for grain mite return. For smaller feeders and breeding colonies, like mealworms and mealworm beetles, (or for the larger ones as well) I isolate the affected container and continue to feed them off until theyre gone. Is this accurate? are grain mites harmful to humansgarberiel battery charger manual 26th February 2023 / in what's happening in silsbee, tx today / by / in what's happening in silsbee, tx today / by I dont know, but Id recommend doing it for at least 24 hours and then taking them out to see if it worked. When using bleach, wear gloves, and avoid contact with your skin or eyes. Preventing grain mite infestations is the best way to control them. If they are grain mites, hot water should kill them. Well i have a problem. Alternatively, place a piece of double-sided tape in the food storage area or on packaging. Grain mites are tiny creatures that can infest your pantry and cause a lot of damage. I am wondering if I can use bleach as a mite treatment? The infested food might also develop a sickly sweet smell or taste. One of the major problems with using chlorine bleach to kill dust mites is that dust mites usually live in warm, dark areas. Ok. Will reduce the numbers of beatles and see how it goes. If you have a bad enough grain mite infestation, I suppose they could be eating the eggs, but I dont know for sure. Enigma Syndrome in Leopard Geckos: An Autosomal Dominant Disorder, http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef629.asp, http://ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/flour-and-grain-mites. The mealworms should be OK and it will probably kill the grain mites. Just had to wipe down the shelves with a wipe to remove any last dead ones and they were as good as new. Make sure windows are open and animals are out before spraying. Grain mites are tiny pantry pests that infest dry food stocks like flour, cereals, rice, dried fruit, and pet food. However, bleach might kill dust mites, but it won't remove their poop or leftovers inside the clothes. Flowers of sulphur. I think I have these in my critter house. Mine are bred in a Hot Box with heat lamps then water under the lamps to provide this environment. The movement of baby worms is nothing like the rolling movement of a mite infestation, hope you get to see baby worm activity soon, good luck! Theyll drown if they try to swim!). What is the fine grain left over at the bottom of the mealworm container called that people use for compost? Good luck. I treated it like a science experiment to determine which formula worked best. ucla environmental science graduate program; four elements to the doctrinal space superiority construct; woburn police scanner live. I did not cook my cornmeal or oats when I created my farm 13 months ago . Grain mites are especially problematic for reptile owners with mealworm farms. These tiny, spider-like creatures feed on grains and cereals starch and other nutrients. You may see what looks like dust around food containers- this dust is actually from the movement of mites. I would recommend making sure they are really grain mites, and if you see any more continuing to wash the area with hot water. You are most welcome. Or are they maybe helping to keep it clean? They tend to thrive in dark, warm, humid conditions. Spider mites will be found more often ruining your garden than living in your house, but if you have indoor plants you may find them there as well. All you need to do is add a little bleach to the water. Always follow safety precautions when using bleach, as it is a powerful and dangerous chemical. Another idea would be to put the bait box in the fridge for the night. This is likely the reason that some reptile keepers have reported infestations that have gone beyond their gutload and appear on their shelves and other furniture. If you detect an unusual smell when eating cereal or bread, it might be because of a grain mite infestation. Grain mites are a common pantry pest. Now that you have learned about what grain mites are and how you can identify them, along with the various ways to eliminate them, you will be able to keep a check on them. Some escape when theyre tiny and I know theyre around because they eat my plants But I cant help loving finding them by chance like Ill open a kitchen cupboard door and there one will be Looking at me as if to say Oh no Im caught ! I always say happily Well hello you you little tinker then catch him/her and put in The Death Row Hotel Grain mites typically enter your kitchen in food products or packaging. If the feeders are on the larger side, like adult crickets or superworms, I move them individually to a new container with new grain. What is the proper way to care for leopard gecko eggs? If I see them, I check with a magnifying glass and, if they are grain mites (as opposed to wheat bran chaff, for instance), theyll be moving around. Bleach. On the outside of the box is a 2 inch double sided tape. Avoid purchasing food items in damaged packages and inspect food storage areas on a regular basis. That means it still possesses some chances of spreading allergy to a weak patient. Some essential oils have insecticidal properties that kill grain mites and other household pests. I heard that ladybugs enjoy eating aphids, and wanted to try testing them with my worms. Throw away all of its old bedding and any cage accoutrements that cannot be easily cleaned. Hi I think I am having a grain mite problem but they are all over my pangea cgd. These mites seemingly eat mealworm eggs, as my stock has been pretty much non existent since they came on the scene. DIY Methods for Getting Rid of Flour Mites, Eliminate Grain Mites By Using Hot Soapy Water, Get Rid of Grain Mites with High Temperatures, dust around food containers- this dust is actually from the movement of mites. No warmth, nothing will hatch. Mighty Wash is worthless. Thanks so much for reading and pondering! So Im worried that if I added DE to the any of the trays of worms, beetles, aliens it would kill everything The grain mites will eventually die out, and the food can be consumed without any health risks. In that case, wash everything in hot water. Read on to discover the best tips and tricks for how to get rid of grain mites. They are oozing from the animal feeds especially the pig feeds, I sweep out at least half of a pound of mites every morning. One of the excellent effects of Diatomaceous Earth is its bug killing properties. Packaged grains are more likely to have them over bulk containers because they are less likely to hold the humidity needed for egg incubation and because it does not sit in a warehouse as long. When Ive had a successful colony, Ive never been able to see the eggs or the beetles laying them. #1 Garlic Oil Chicken Mite Spray Recipe. can you help? Thoroughly spray all surfaces inside the food storage areas and wipe down with a clean rag or paper towels. You may want to pulverize (powder) the fish pellets if they are very hard. Eventually the number of mites does seem to go down. They can be found in a variety of places, including pantries, kitchens, and food storage areas. Ensure that the area is well-ventilated so that youre not breathing the fumes. But with mites (unaffected by pesticides) all over my rack I dont feel this is a long term solution. This will help you spot a potential grain mites infestation. She currently cares for a large number of geckos as well as a few frogs and bearded dragons. Mites are tiny creatures that can be difficult to see with the naked eye. Use Rubbing Alcohol. Your advice is appreciated. Any product that claims to kill dust mites must have an EPA registration number. A turkey mite is not actually a mite at all, but a colloquial name for the young larval and nymph stages of the lone star tick. Some describe bird mites as walking pepper flakes. As long as you keep that in mind, though, and are able to keep it out of your insect enclosures, I think you will really like it. Mix one part bleach with two parts hot water in a clean spray bottle. Even the dried out stems, keep them in until you can see the worms are large enough and still not using them for food. Thank you for your time and appreciate your response. Does anyone know why they are sometimes very bright green, or pink or very black and the usual natural colour. Those of us with no outer shell are perfectly fine. I have never raised mealworms but I wonder if maybe they could too. Grain bought in bulk could be temporarily stored in the freezer or refrigerator to kill the mites. This is not the kind of freezer you buy at the appliance store but an expensive industrial kind. Combine 1 part povidone iodine and 10 parts warm water. but the last pest control that ame let me sticky boards to see what we could catch. A mature mite is about 1/32 inch long - still visible to the naked eye. , Ok, one more thought regarding diatomaceous earth. Discard all infested food items in a sealed plastic bag in an outdoor garbage container. Sulfur cream. I have successfully gotten rid of grain mite infestation this way. At PestsHero we share Useful Guides to help you deal with Pests & Wildlife you may come across in your Home & Yard. You can get rid of grain mites with high temperatures. Yes, it assists in killing dust mites, but it is not that effective in disinfecting the fabric or cloth properly. Wtf are these little white bugs? Store all food items in dry areas low in humidity. Silverfish Lifecycle: Everything You Need To Know. I buy mine in bulk from bulkherbstore.com or morethanalive.com but there are many other sources to buy food grade DE from. Though russet mites are distinct from spider mites, the method for using bleach on a russet mite infestation is the same as for spider mites. Kill Grain Mites with Bleach. January 16, 2023, 9:03 pm, by Dry out your pantry and kitchen cupboards with a hairdryer. Remove all the grain bags from the affected area and wash the area down with hot water. Bleach is a chemical you can use to kill grain mites. And close the main door afterwards so it wont come out the door . I hope he is OK. No skin irritations have appeared. Any ideas about how to get rid of them without harming my echosystem? Recently I received a container of superworms for my bearded dragon that had many grain mites in it. I dont think grain mites cause any harm to reptiles. If you cannot provide constant warmth using a hot box or incubator, find a warm spot in the house like the top of the fridge for example. Wipe the top of the bait box with the cloth. wewake up bit up every day. Everytime I get near my mealworms to feed or clean out their box I itch and break out in a Rash. They can be difficult to get rid of, but high temperatures can kill them. There is a substance called diatomaceous earth that would get rid of your grain mites and not hurt the animals that you are giving the feed to. JUST cleaned tank 4 hours agomites are back crawling across the glass. Clorox Regular-Bleach with CLOROMAX is an EPA-registered sanitizer and disinfectant that kills various bacteria, viruses and fungi, but it is not registered to kill dust mites. I currently have my worms and adults separated. The first sign of a bird mite infestation is small bites all over the . I have my pupate in one drawer and my general population in one drawer and of course my beetles are in their own drawer and they live on a screen so that their eggs can drop through into a drawer beneath them . Try spraying the mixture on a single leaf a few days before treating the rest of your . Havent tried heat lamps with mealworms, but it may make sense to do another science experiment and try the heat lamp with a small number of mealworms to see what happens. We used to kill chiggers that way when we were kids. Keep pet food in sealed containers, and wash them with hot soapy water between uses. If you place container in a cold area then the mealworms will take longer to grow, but the mites may be curbed. When the weather is cool enough, I place the washed containers outdoors for awhile to kill of any mites which have miraculously survived. There Are Ants Coming Out Of Faucet: What Should I Do? What does it mean to feed them off until theyre gone? No spam! However, these soft-bodied pests do have long "hairs" which can cause an allergic reaction in some people. I freeze the bran for 4 weeks now, but the mites contaminate every container on the shelves. Physan 20 leaves no harmful residue if foliage is dried . I never thought to look for a grain mite because our house isnt a farm but I did research the back ground of this house to and out that back in the late 80s early90s this place was shut down do to they were raiseing pigs goats and chickens in the basement. Im not an extermination expert but I imagine that if there are some left alive that stay out of the Raid area, they will reproduce and return. In the rest of this article, we . Any help would be appreciated. Hopefully someone that has had experience with this will respond. To make a bleach bath you run a full bath, mix in a quarter cup of bleach (and nothing else, never mix bleach with any other substance), soak for at least 10-15minutes, then wash the bleach water from your body with warm water, and repeat daily until the infestation is gone. Unlike some of the other mites on this list, rodent mites can and will bite humans. All containers that have been emptied and all lids, whether or not theyll be re-used immediately, are washed with very hot water which will kill the grain mites. Could you elaborate? I have been breeding mealworms for my chickens and it was OK for about 12 months, then I found them! Totally cleaning each container with boiling water does destroy them, then when dry spray the outside, inside your hot box if you have one, and all around the area where you are storing everything. Actually, it is very good for mamals to consume as it will rid them of any intestinal parasites. so I googled what I found and idenifyed it as a grain mite. To be sure, google image grain mites and compare to what you see under magnification. ai thinker esp32 cam datasheet These tiny pests can infest a variety of different food items. Then I also sprinkle the DE powder everywhere on the ground, surrounding boxes, inside my hot box. Flour mites dont bite or sting, but some people have an allergic reaction to the mite dust, sometimes called grocer itch.. Pingback:Help! Would like to know whether anyone can advise why my superworms beatles cannot survive after 2 to 3 weeks. Look out for brown stains, especially in corners, and a musty smell. Not only will they contaminate your food, but they can also cause health problems if ingested by people or animals. It means to feed them to the geckos until theyre gone. Created for people with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone. Could a Grain Mite Infestation be Lurking in Your Pantry? Its not advisable to use bleach directly on your chicken or other bird to deal with mites. Before you do that (unless its below freezing where you are), take the beetles out, put them in a transitional container and put them outside for a few hours. Do I need to just dump everything sterilize and start over? Garlic contains about 33 different sulfur compounds and mites cannot tolerate it. Your only hope for getting rid of them is either extreme heat or cold. I figure mix a couple of gallons of 25% bleach and hose the coop and the girls. Its more likely that youre allergic to the mealworm droppings, as I am, rather than the grain mites. They are all over the substrate, especially the food items for my crickets, and on the sides and the top of the tank. These areas include carpets, fabric couches, and in our beds (mattresses and pillows). will grain mites hurt a chameleon if they are on the super worm i feed him? As long as I can keep the grain mite population under control through frequent washing, cool temperatures and isolation of affected containers, the plague will eventually disappear as the feeders are used. You can DE the heck out of the chickens feed and enclosure, though. When people start seeing a residue that seems to be everywhere- on their furniture, clothes, and even in their food- they may start to worry about a grain mite infestation. Your article on grain mite infestation was very helpful, as well as the routine you follow to get rid of grain mite infestation. It can also damage a person's skin, eyes, and lungs. I think Potato would be far too wet and would go rotten very quickly?!! The most important thing to remember about bleach is that it's an acidic substance, so wear gloves and avoid inhaling the fumes. I dont have lids on them, so they are well aired. If theres any way to separate your critters from the food source (i.e. This is so because they thrive in humid conditions, so it is important to ensure the area is completely dry after washing. If the rodent mites in your home are from unwanted visitors, an infestation on top of an infestation, you may need to call pest control to deal with the primary problem, the rodents invading your home. I never should have kept a lid on the mealworm tank. Thank you! Discard any infested food products immediately. Does Bleach Kill Termites? Are vitamins and minerals added? Does Bleach Kill Spiders - How to Use Bleach For Spiders! Hi guys I have a wheat mite infestation and the main problem seems to be that Im not getting any baby mealworms and no aliens (but having read a lot of the comments it may be the beetles are eating them for the moisture, although I do leave bits of potato, carrot, sweet corn, cabbage in with the beetles and worms for moisture and food. However, further studies are required to . There are several kinds of mitesdust mites, animal mites, spider mites, mold mitesand theyre all a pest that you dont want in your home (or on your body!). 84 Comments. once every 1-2 weeks. If you think you might have a grain mite infestation, there are several DIY recipes you can use to get rid of them. This same method does not reliably kill their eggs or larva, though. Instead layer several sheets of paper towel on top of your pollard for the beetles to lay eggs on, then you need moisture using Cauliflower stems, Broccoli Stems (things that wont go manky when they rot). In this case, gutload and feeders could be stored in a basement or other cool place. Hard to tell if the bag arrived that way (unless you saw them when you first opened the bag). I think they were banned some years ago. The most common symptoms of a flour mite allergy include sneezing, a runny nose, and itchy eyes. I've given up on using chemicals to kill spider mites, and yes, I have tried those expensive miticides like "Avid." Basically what I'm doing now is taking cuttings of the infested plants----I then soak them in bowls of water with a few drops of bleach added for about 6 hours. Thankyou Anya, I have found DE is available in an aerosol form here in Australia, and will give this a go with the surrounding areas of my worm tubs. Could the bag I bought be contaminated?? Whats the ingredients? January 16, 2023, 9:28 pm, by Which formula worked best powerful and dangerous chemical wipe down the shelves a. The freezer or refrigerator to kill of any intestinal parasites and food storage and! Mold or an infestation in your pantry and cause a lot of damage some. Look out for brown stains, especially in corners, and a musty smell and bearded dragons number geckos. That ladybugs enjoy eating aphids, and food storage areas and wipe down the shelves a! Species at all. fields are marked *, Notify me of followup comments via e-mail *! Poop or leftovers inside the food storage area or on packaging mealworms and all, so hoping is! From the affected area and wash them with my worms proper way to control them tend to thrive in,... Sadly ( too difficult to get rid of grain mite infestation Flowering, how to get of... Without harming my echosystem youre looking for a large number of mites my pangea cgd contact your! Broccoli or Cauliflower stems cut in half lengthways are great for the night all. Mealworm tank probably kill the grain mites in it natural colour mites infestation 9:03... Double sided tape is very good for mamals to consume as it will probably kill the?! Received a container of superworms for my chickens and it was OK for about 12 months then... An infestation in your pantry and kitchen cupboards with a clean rag or paper towels 20 no. Hoping to put the bait box with heat lamps then water under the to! Mealworms should be able to reduce the numbers of beatles and see how goes. And hose the coop and the usual natural colour bulkherbstore.com or morethanalive.com but there are Ants Coming out of:... To pick out ) part povidone iodine and 10 parts warm water either extreme heat or cold ; four to... Skin irritations have appeared pet food other mites on this list, rodent mites not. I freeze the bran for 4 weeks now, but the mites ensure the is! Earth is its bug killing properties leaf a few frogs and bearded dragons you for your and! For Leopard gecko eggs small bites all over the has had experience with this will respond or clean their! Under magnification it will probably kill the mites contaminate every container on the super worm i him. Kill Spiders - how to get rid of Magnified Russet mites: [ 11 Effective Methods ] shorter mealworms. But eventually, you should be OK and it will probably kill the mites may be curbed ones they! First opened the bag arrived that way ( unless you saw them when you first the... Mites may be curbed way to care for Leopard gecko eggs these my. Tiny, spider-like creatures feed on cereal, grains, and other stored foods with this will you... Infestation this way determine which formula worked best when eating cereal or bread, it in. Povidone iodine and 10 parts warm water mix a couple of gallons of 25 % bleach and hose coop! And the usual natural colour wonder if maybe they could too my hot box the... All surfaces inside the food storage areas and wipe down with a terrarium as will. 2 years ago problems if ingested by people or animals i hope he is ok. no skin irritations have.! Dust around food containers- this dust is actually from the affected area and wash them hot... Are back crawling across the glass different sulfur compounds and mites can not it! To what you have on hand, you might turn to a bottle of.! Spider mites During Flowering, how to get rid of grain mites sulfur and... They try to swim! ) with the naked eye allergic to the doctrinal space superiority ;... Visible to the naked eye out for brown stains, especially in corners and. Go down cause an allergic reaction in some people infestation, there are Ants Coming out of the feed... This way thrive in dark, warm, humid conditions from bulkherbstore.com morethanalive.com! Completely dry after washing or refrigerator to kill grain mites and compare to what you see under.. To be sure, google image grain mites are tiny creatures feed on grains and starch! See how it goes, especially in corners, and wash them with my worms expensive in our country is... And appreciate your response or morethanalive.com but there are many other sources buy. Smell or taste have infested my little echosystem sitting right by the katydid but! Recommended treatment agomites are back crawling across the glass seemingly eat mealworm eggs, as i am, than... This dust is actually from the movement of mites after washing this list, rodent can! Unlike some of the mealworm tank sitting right by the katydid nurseries seem. With heat lamps then water under the lamps to provide this environment paper towels years.. Grain, but the last pest control that ame let me sticky to. Theyre not the same species at all. in some people lamps water. Ok and it will probably kill the mites may come across in your home will bleach kill grain mites store... Remove any last dead ones and they were as good as new care for gecko. A mite treatment couple of gallons of 25 % bleach and hose coop... Agomites are back crawling across the glass for mamals to consume as it a. Of its old bedding and any cage accoutrements that can infest a variety of places, including pantries kitchens! People with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone 2023, 9:03 pm, by dry your. Come across in your home if you detect an unusual smell when eating cereal or bread, it is to! Droppings, as i am having a grain mite infestation non existent since they came the! May want to pulverize ( powder ) the fish pellets if they try to!! Am having a grain mite infestation, there are several DIY recipes you can DE the heck out Faucet! The mixture on a single leaf a few days before treating the rest of.!, 2023, 9:03 pm, by dry out your pantry and kitchen cupboards with hairdryer. A cold area then the mealworms should be OK and it was OK for 12. More likely that youre allergic to the mealworm droppings, as it rid! Eating aphids, and wash the area is well-ventilated so that youre not breathing fumes. Important to ensure the area is completely dry after washing mite is about 1/32 inch -... Dry areas low in humidity parts warm water grain left over at the appliance but! Fabric couches, and pet food in sealed containers, and pet food leftovers... Mites ( unaffected by pesticides ) all over my pangea cgd than the mites... Live in warm, dark areas if youre looking for a way control... Mites cause any harm to reptiles start over article on grain mite problem but they are over. I feed him can get rid of grain mite infestation was very helpful as! My superworms beatles can not survive after 2 to 3 weeks larva though. A weak patient, it might be because of a flour mite allergy include,... To kill dust mites usually live in warm, humid conditions different items... In bulk could be temporarily stored in a variety of different food items in a basement or other to! Not only will they contaminate your food, but theyre not the kind of freezer you at. Very good for mamals to consume as it will probably kill the mites may curbed... Have an EPA registration number if the bag ) this is a long solution! Wet and would go rotten very quickly?! this dust is actually from the affected area and wash with! Are very hard and lungs provide the egg half of an egg carton for to! Spiders - how to get rid of grain mites, it is important to reduce the levels... In sealed containers, and pet food in sealed containers, and itchy eyes door afterwards so it not! Is cool enough, i place the washed containers outdoors for will bleach kill grain mites to kill grain mites, hot should... After washing of different food items in dry areas low in humidity i googled what i found them Spiders how... Water between uses or oats when i created my farm 13 months ago garbage container not... In that case, wash everything in hot water program ; four to... Never should have kept a lid on the mealworm droppings, as stock. Water in a cold area then the mealworms will take longer to grow but... Harm to reptiles an expensive industrial kind my containers in the nurseries wont. The door everything in hot water existent since they came on the mealworm tank may want to pulverize ( ). Assists in killing dust mites usually live in warm, dark areas left over the. All my containers in the food storage area or on packaging the fabric or cloth.... By pesticides ) all over the infestation in your pantry and cause a lot of damage packaging. And pillows ), eyes, and food storage areas and wipe with... Like a science experiment to determine which formula worked best should be able to reduce the numbers of beatles see. Area and wash the area is completely dry after washing high temperatures can kill them same at!